Where in 1 Corinthians 1:10 is there any reference or allusion to an organization?And then he points to Romans 14:2-5:
Where in 1 Corinthians 1:10 does it say unity is to be achieved by submission to such an organization.
"For instance, one person may have faith strong enough to eat all kinds of food, while another who is weaker eats only vegetables. Those who eat meat must not look down on those who do not, and those who do not eat meat must not pass judgement on those who do; for God has accepted them. Who are you to pass judgement on someone else's servant? Whether he stands or falls is his own Master's business; and stand he will, because his Master has power to enable him to stand. Again, some make a distinction between this day and that; others regard all days alike. Everyone must act on his own convictions."Speaking of Romans 14:2-5, he asks, "Doesn't this passage indicate that it is acceptable for Christians to differ on certain religious issues?"
[The same question can be asked of Rhodes here. Where does Romans 14: 2-5 condemn organization?
Where does Romans 14:2-5 say unity is NOT to be achieved by submission to such an organization?]
The Ryrie Study Bible correctly states here, "Paul here discusses the
proper attitude Christians should have toward each other in debatable
areas of conduct (things which are not clearly stated to be wrong)." The
dietary matters talked about at Romans 14 are not clearly stated religious
issues. They are minor compared to the more important things (Col 2:16).
These are not differences of doctrine.
Adam Clarke on 1 Cor 1:10 also says, "On every essential doctrine of
the Gospel all genuine Christians agree."
Paul does clarify himself right at the end of this epistle to the Romans
when he says, "I implore you, my friends, keep an eye on those who stir
up quarrels and lead others astray, *contrary to the teaching (doctrine
NKJV) you received. Avoid them." Romans 16:17
My Oxford Study Bible then cross-references this to Gal 1:6-9, which
states, " I am astonished to find you turning away so quickly from him
who called you by grace and following a different gospel. Not that
it is in fact another gospel; only there are some who unsettle your minds
by trying to distort the gospel of Christ. But should anyone, even
I myself or an angel from heaven preach a gospel other than the gospel
I preached to you, let him be banned! I warn you again: If
anyone preaches a gospel other than the gospel you received, let him
be banned!"
Banishment?! Which churches these days use this kind of authority?
Which churches actually bother to excommunicate as the first century has
done?
Rhodes then points to 1 Cor 1:12; 6:13; 8:10; 10:25; 11:2-16; 14; 15
to prove the disunity was already prevalent in the 1st Century Church,
as if to assume that this disunity is in fact very Christian.
1 Corinthians 6:13, 8:10, and 10:25 again, deal with dietary matters,
which we have dealt with above. But what of 1 Cor 1:12?
"What I mean is this, each of you is saying, 'I am for Paul,' or 'I
am for Apollos'; 'I am for Cephas,' or 'I am for Christ.'" But does Paul
give approval for this kind of division? Not if you read verses 10 and
13. Paul even goes so far as to that some were "on the way to destruction."
This is the same Paul that says, "And I shall go on doing as I am doing
now, to cut the ground from under those who would seize any chance to put
their vaunted apostleship on the same level as ours." 2 Cor 11:12
This Paul was very assured of his leadership and control in the church,
and did not suffer any opposition in this matter.
1 Corinthians 11:2-16, (and chapters 14 and 15 for that matter) do
not support Rhodes view, in fact, quite the opposite. 1 Cor 11:3 states,
"every man has Christ for his head, a woman's head is man, as Christ's
head is God." Here you have a structured organizational system. The following
verses then go on to explain the woman's role in the church, and the regulations
that she should follow. As you and I know, the Southern Baptist Convention
is split due to opposition of the Bible's view of women in the pulpit.
Remember, this is the same Paul that said:
"For the time will come when people will not stand sound teaching,
but each will follow his own whim." 2Tim 4:3
Why? Ps 18:1 says "A solitary person pursues his own desire; he quarrels
with every sound policy. The foolish have not interest in seeking to understand,
but only in expressing their own opinions."
There is no getting away from it, the pattern of the early church was
one that stressed organization, and a far reaching organization at that.
Paul could say that "We boast about you among the churches" (2 Thess 1:4)
as his leadership was felt through all the churches.
Paul had written letters from himself to the different churches, and
then he asked them to spread the epistle around to the other churches.
(Col 4:16) Where does this happen today, unless you are part of a unified
organization.
Paul speaks of "our authority" (2 Cor 10:8) and with this authority
he gave rules: "You know THE RULES we gave you in the name
of the Lord Jesus." 1 Thess 4:4
Heb 10:25 says "We should not stay away from our meetings"
We are again admonished to "Agree together in the Lord"
Php 4:2
"The reason I left you behind in Crete was for you to get everything
organised
there."- Tit 1:5, The Jerusalem Bible.
"Obey your leaders and submit to their authority." Heb
13:17
"Remember your leaders, who spoke God's message to you."
Heb 13:7
"Greet all your leaders and all God's people." Heb 13:24
"Acknowledge those who are working so hard among you, and are your
leaders."
The apostle Paul also pointed out that "God has organized the
body" of Jesus Christ's anointed followers as it pleases Him. Hence, we
should expect "God's congregation" to be well organized and to function
peacefully, harmoniously.-1 Cor. 14:33; 12:24, The Riverside New Testament;
1 Tim 3:5.
1. The Apostles speaking of INDIVIDUAL AND GROUPS OF CHURCHES:
* "the church which was at Jerusalem" (Acts 8:1)
* "the church that was at Antioch" (Acts 13:1)
* "the church which is at Cenchrea" (Rom 16:1)
* "the church of the Thessalonians" (1 Thess 1:1)
* "the church of the Ephesians" (2 Tim 4:22)
* "the churches of Galatia" (1 Cor 16:1)
* "the churches of Judaea" (Gal 1:22)
(thereby indicating they kept tabs on all of them.)
2. ...but also spoke GENERICALLY FOR ALL CHURCHES:
* "I will build my church, and the powers of death shall never conquer it." (Matt 16:18)
* "tell it unto the church" (Matt 18:17)
* "the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the Truth" (1 Tim 3:15)
* "every church" (1 Cor 4:17)
* "the church of God." (1 Cor 10:32)
* "the churches of God." (1 Cor 11:16)
* "the church" (Eph 1:22, 3:21, Phil 3:6)
“The word ekklesia occurs in AA [Acts of the Apostles] 23 times. In no passage does it certainly mean anything except the local church, usually the church of Jerusalem, but also the local church of Antioch and other cities. The church of Jerusalem was the parent and the prototype of the other churches, and possible the first foundations were considered as expansions of the Jerusalem community. …The church of Jerusalem sends men to investigate conditions in other churches (AA 15:3) and itself in assembly makes decisions that are referred to it by other churches (AA 15:22).” P. 135 Dictionary of the Bible, by John L. McKenzie
Is your church patterned after the church of the first century?
Consider the following example, as taken from Will The Real Heretics Stand Up by David W. Bercot:
"Another example illustrates both the brotherly love of Christians and their uncompromising commitment to Jesus as Lord. A pagan actor became a Christian, but he realized he had to change his employment because most plays encouraged immorality and were steeped in pagan idolatry. Furthermore, the theater sometimes purposefully turned boys into homosexuals so they could better play the roles of women on stage. Since this newly-converted actor had no other job skills, he considered establishing an acting school to teach drama to nonChristian students. However, he first submitted his idea to the leaders of his church for their counsel.As we can see, the early Church members submitted to the authority of its leaders.
The leaders told him that if acting was an immoral profession then it would be wrong to train others in it. Nevertheless, since this was a rather novel question, they wrote to Cyprian in nearby Carthage for his thoughts. Cyprian agreed that a profession unfit for a Christian to practice was also unfit for him to teach, even if this was his sole means of support.
How many of us would be so concerned about righteousness that we would submit our employment decisions to our body of elders or board of deacons? How many church leaders today would be so concerned about offending God that they would take such an uncompromising position?"
Who Keeps the Church Clean if it is just "Me and Jesus"
The 1st century Church was actually very judicious, as the following
from Smith's Bible Dictionary:
"Excommunication, as exercised by the Christian Church, is not merely
founded on the natural right, possessed by all societies, nor merely on
the example of the Jewish Church and nation. It was instituted by our Lord
(Matt. xviii. 15, 18), amd it was practised and commanded by St. Paul (1
Tim. i. 20; 1 Cor. v. 11; Tit. iii.10). In the Epistles, we find St. Paul
frequently claiming the right to exercise discipline over his converts
(comp. 2 Cor. i. 23, xiii.10).
...The Nature of Excommunication is made more evident by the acts of
St. Paul than by any investigation of Jewish practice or of the etymology
of words. We thus find,
(1) that it is a spiritual penalty, involving no temporal punishment,
except accidentally;
(2) that it consists in seperation from the communion of the Church;
(3) that its object is the good of the sufferer ( 1 Cor. v.5), and
the protection of the sound members of the Church ( 2 Tim. iii. 17);
(4) that its subjects are those who are guilty of heresy (1 Tim. i.
20), or gross immorality (1 Cor. v. 1);
(5) that it is inflicted by the authority of the Church at large
(Matt. xviii. 18), wielded by the
highest ecclesiastical officer (1 Corinthians 5:3; Titus 3:10)
(6) that this officer's sentence is promulgated by the congregation
to which the offender belongs, (1 Corinthians 5:4) in defence to his superior
judgment and command, (2 Corinthians 2:9) and in spite of any opposition
on the part of a minority, (2 Corinthians 2:6)
(7) that the exclusion may be of indefinite duration, or for a period;
(8) that its duration may be abridged at the discretion and by the
indulgence of the person who has imposed the penalty, (2 Corinthians 2:8)
(9) that penitence is the condition on which restoration to communion
is granted, (2 Corinthians
2:8)
(10) that the sentence is to be publicly reversed as it was publicly
promulgated. (2 Corinthians 2:10) "
This point is re-iterated by the following:
Excommunicaton
"The permanent or temporary exclusion of a church member from fellowship within the community. This practice, specifically mentioned in Matthew's Gospel (Matt. 18:15-17) and the Corinthian correspondence (1 Cor. 5:5; 2 Cor. 2:6), served 2 purposes. First, it protects the community from the harmful influence of the sinner (1 Cor. 5:6-7). Second, it reminds the sinner of the sin (2 Cor. 2:7) in the hope that repentance (7:9) and redemption occur. Excommunication is never an individual or (2 Cor. 2:6) or judgmental activity (v.8) and it is not a withdrawal of concern for the sinner. It always has restoration as its ultimate goal.p. 438, Eerdman’s Dictionary of the Bible
Although the term ‘excommunication’ does not appear in Scripture, the concept is clearly present. Matthew instructs the Church to treat unrepentant members like ‘a Gentile and a tax collector’ (Matt. 18:17), and Paul wants the guilty party delivered ‘over to Satan’ (1 Cor. 5:5), i.e., delivered over to the realm of Satan, the world outside the Church.
Church discipline, ending in excommunication, should only be used for serious matters such as blatant sexual sins (1 Cor. 5:1), unrepentance (Matt. 18:15-17), factiousness (Tit. 3:10-11), and the propagation of heresy (Rom. 16:17). Sinners should be dealt with quickly and seriously for both the health of the community and the spiritual health of the offender.”
If you are not part of an organizational structure, who is enforcing
the removal of the wicked from your church?
Even the conservative publications like the NIV and NASB Study Bible
have this to say in a footnote at 1 Cor. 5:11-13,
“Calling oneself a Christian who continues to live an immoral life is reprehensible and degrading, and gives a false testimony to Christ. If the true Christian has intimate association with someone who does this, the non-Christian world may assume that the church approves such immoral, ungodly living and thus the name of Christ would be dishonored. Questions would arise concerning of the Christian’s own testimony, …judge those who are within, The church is to exercise spiritual discipline over the professing believers in the church.”According to Dake's Annotated Bible, there are:
“REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.” 1 Cor 5:13 NASB (emphasis theirs)
"16 Bible reasons for excommunication:Yet, excommunication, as a whole, is not practiced by the majority of nominal churches of today. This is because organization is pooh-poohed by many. It is "Just Me and Jesus." Fortunately, the early church did not trust each individual member to police themselves should they fall. The results today are disastrous.
1. Refusing to make peace (Mt 18:15)
2. Causing divisions (Rom 16:17)
3. Fornication (1 Cor 5:11-13)
4. Covetousness (1 Cor 5:11-13)
5. Idolatry (1 Cor 5:11-13)
6. Trouble Making (1 Cor 5:11-13)
7. Drunkeness (1 Cor 5:11-13)
8. Extortion (1 Cor 5:11-13)
9. Refusal to Love God (1 Cor 16:22)
10. Unbelief, infidelity (2 Cor 6:14)
11. Backsliding (2 Cor 13:1, 2, 10)
12. Disorderly conduct (2 Th. 3:6)
13. Defying the truth (2 Th. 3:14)
14. Denying faith (1 Tim. 1:19, 20)
15. False teaching (1 Tim. 6:3-5; 2 John 10)
16. Being a heretic (Tit. 3:10, 11)"
P. 179, footnote 1 Cor 5:13*
The latest Barna and Gallup research reveals the shocking but true statistics of how the church is being molded by or postmodern culture rather than vice-versa. 70% of Americans are members of a church, temple, or synagogue, however, only 31% attend weekly. It gets worse. Only 17% attend Sunday School weekly (1996), down from 23% in 1991."Disunity is disobedience to the commandment of love, and it is the same thing as unbelief (1 John 5:1-3). Church unity is not a "desirable feature" in the life of the Church; it is a condition of the Church's existence, a test of whether the Church is the Church. A divided Church is a contradiction of its own nature as Church; it is witnessing to falsehood. Its evangelism cannot be effective. Jesus prayed "that they all may be one, even as you, Father, are in unity with me and I with you, that they may also be in unity with us; that the world may know that you sent me" (John 17:21; cp. 17:23). If we took the New Testament point of view seriously, we should expect to find that the single most serious obstacle to the evangelization of the world is the disunity of "the churches." Alan Richardson, An Introduction to the Theology of the New Testament
67% of the general population reject belief in absolute truth and also believe that all religions will equally get one to heaven if one is faithful (universalism). As alarming as this is, even more so is that 53% of "born again" Christians agree with this and reject the belief in absolute truth while 41% of the "born again population embrace the belief of universalism!
20% of Americans identify themselves as New Age practitioners, 53% believe in ESP, 24% have practiced Transcendental Meditation, 34% believe in a New Age form of God, 36% read their horoscopes regularly and 26% believe that astrology is scientifically accurate (a recent Life Magazine poll indicated 48% believe that astrology is probably or definitely valid). Belief in reincarnation grew from 25% in 1992 to an astonishing 30% in 1996.
Especially troubling is of the "born again" population: 28% believe that Jesus sinned and didn’t rise from the dead, 47% say Satan is not living being-only a symbol for evil...As you read the above incredible statistics remember that 84% of those polled identified themselves as "Christians."
Is your church patterned after the church of the first century?
See also http://www.jw-media.org/vnr/2122827332/3111312856.htm
"The earthly church is the image of the heavenly." Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.421
God, the great designer (Ps 147:4), also had a structured organization in heaven. (Daniel 7:9,10; Psalms 103:20,21; Isaiah 6:1-4; 40:26; Ezek 1:24-28; Rev 4:1-11; 14:6,7)
God is the Almighty and has his Son at his right hand (Ps 110:1) who
is "second in authority to God himself" footnote at Ps 110:1 NIV Study
Bible.
He has angels, an archangel (Jude 9), cherubim (Gen 3:24) seraphim
(Is 6:2), kingdom and priests as co-rulers (Rev 5:10), elders (Rev 4:4)
etc.
Any reading of the Torah will impress anyone with the organizational structure of the pre-Christian congregation. It is only natural that this was carried over into the 1st century congregation (see above).
It should not surprise one that the ante-Nicene congregation/church
was also organizational.
I Clement is a letter that was sent from the Church in Rome
to the Church in Corinth around A.D. 95-96.
Circa A.D. 107, Ignatius of Antioch wrote letters to several Churches.
Seven of those letters are extant. They provide an invaluable insight into
Church life at the beginning of the second century.
"It is said, 'In the church, God has set apostles, prophets, teachers,' and all the other means through which the Spirit works. Those who do not join themselves to the church are not partakers of these things. Rather, they defraud themselves of life through their perverse opinions and infamous behavior. For where the church is, there is the Spirit of God. And where the Spirit is, there is the church, and every kind of grace." Irenaeus (c. 180. E/W), 1.458.J. L. von Mosheim wrote:
"If . . . what no Christian can doubt, the apostles of Jesus Christ acted by a divine command and guidance, then that form of the primitive churches which they derived from the church of Jerusalem, erected and organized by the apostles themselves, must be accounted divine."-Institutes of Ecclesiastical History, Ancient and Modern, Volume I, pages 67-8.
"The pre-eminence of the church is its oneness. It is the basis of union. In this, it surpasses all other things and has nothing like or equal to itself." Clement of Alexandria (c. 195. E), 2.555Do we see this kind of union in the churches of today? No:
"That evangelicals, all claiming a biblical norm, are reaching contradictory theological formulations on many of the major issues they are addressing suggests the problematic nature of their present understanding of theological interpretation. To argue that the Bible is authoritative, but to be unable to come to anything like agreement on what it says (even with those who share an evangelical commitment) is self-defeating. " EXEGETICAL FALLACIES by D. A. Carson p.18Conclusion: People generally accept atheism so they can indulge their own selfish desires and ideals, the "Just Me and Jesus" Christian that adopts this faddish non-organizational stance is much the same, only dressed in a backwards collar. It is selfishness cloaked with the delusion of eternal security/salvation in the guise of a self-described "born-again" hysteria that enables them to block any intellectual intrusions into their emotional outcries of "I'm Saved!"
"He who isolates himself pursues his desires; He disdains all competence. The fool does not desire understanding, But only to air his thoughts." Prov 18:1 Tanakh
Comments on Hebrews 13:17:
"The second mention of leaders in this chapter (v. 17) refers to the
current leadership, whom the addresses
are enjoined to OBEY" (Gordon, RP. Hebrews. Sheffield: Sheffield Academic
Press, 2000. Page 172).
"Leaders are to be OBEYED as those intent on presenting 'souls' (i.e., people destined for eternal life; see 6:19) intact at the final judgment. Ready OBEDIENCE will make the leaders' task joyful; grudging compliance will make them sigh or grumble (v. 17c)" (Pfitzner, VC. Hebrews. Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1997. Page 202).
"PEIQW, 'obey' (Jas. 3:3 of horses; 4 Macc. 10:13; 15:10; 18:1; 2 Clem.
17:5; Ep. Diog. 5:10; Ign. Rom. 7:2 BIS; Bauer 3b; R. Bultmann in TDNT
6.3f; BD [Sec.] 187.6). PEIQESQE suggests continuous action"
(Ellingworth, P. The Epistle to the Hebrews. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans,
1993. Page 723).
"What I meant was that you should not associate with a person who calls himself a believer but is immoral or greedy or worships idols or is a slanderer or a drunkard or a thief. Don't even sit down to eat with such a person." 5:11 TEVRefusing to break bread with such a person is shunning. It is part of excomunication.
"If the true Christian has intimate association with someone who does this, the non-Christian world may assume that the church approves such immoral, ungodly living and thus the name of Christ would be dishonored. Questions would arise concerning of the Christian’s own testimony, …judge those who are within, The church is to exercise spiritual discipline over the professing believers in the church.”Again, Shunning is part of Excommunication.